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Actually, I kind of want to address something that keeps popping up in my thoughts that might be tangentially related to statement 3 on the post above.
The way modplot has been written? All apps and drops are, by their very nature, forced through an IC filter of horror and/or imprisonment which almost makes it feel worse than what happened to drops in, say, Mayfield, which was unashamedly a horror game.
If you drop a character, that character is imprisoned by a cosmic entity, potentially without question, unless you or someone else picks them up again. Whether or not there is a choice in the matter, this is the default state.
Let me try rephrasing that in a way that's slightly less IC and has slightly more unpleasant OOC undertones:
If you drop a character, you are helping the Big Bad of the setting out unquestionably.
It's been eating at me for a while, and it feels kind of unfortunate at best and downright manipulative at worst?
I don't know what to do about it. I really don't. But I don't like it.
That has been bothering me too to be honest. Like you're being made to feel guilty for every time you drop a character in this game. That shouldn't be that way. That was part of the reason I tried really hard not to drop Coco when I was struggling with her still since I already felt bad for dropping Pre-season 2!Luna and Principal Celestia.
As the person who came up with the idea of "what happens to dropped characters" back when the game first began, I'd like to say that this particular mechanic was not meant to cause any OoC discomfort regarding the IC fates of dropped characters. There's nothing wrong with feeling bad for the characters OoCly, but I nevertheless want to emphasize that our intention was never to make anyone feel guilty for or worried about dropping, or to guilt people into staying with the game, or anything of the sort.
When I was developing the plot to MLJ, my thought was to have dropped characters still have some kind of role in the plot, as opposed to just "they disappeared off of the face of the planet and were never seen or heard from again and they just never did anything else", which is what happens a lot of the time (or at least in my experience). Given the nature of the main bad guy, and her goals, and her research towards said goals (well, what she sees as research), it made sense that she'd bring these characters to Equestria. Further, for at least one reason I can't really say at the moment (because it hasn't been presented in-game, yet), even after she was finished studying them in Equestria, there's a point to why she'd still want to keep them and thus, what happens after drops. Pretty much all of this was the idea I had regarding the main bad guy's MO from pretty much the beginning of the game, two years ago.
That being said, if the IC mechanic is an issue for a lot of people OoCly, we can change it. There are a few things we can't change completely, but there is flexibility in what we can do that are in-game, ICly, when characters get dropped and why they would be sent back home as opposed to being in Calice, so its not an automatic "you're stuck in Calice for who knows how long" assumption. It also wouldn't be a retroactive retcon (since, at least to me, the latter would also be a bit disingenuous given the NPC'd dropped characters that have played a part in the plot a la Nemo). We'd also have to figure out a way to convey it ICly to characters. Still, its not impossible.
Thinking it over - and being slightly better-rested than I was when this started chewing at the back of my head, I think the important thing is to convey, OOCly, that the process is opt-in instead of opt-out. I know some people who like exploring the thoughts! But having it feel like it's the default as opposed to a potential leads to a feeling like dropping our characters uncontrollably signs them over to mod fiat, which can be pretty unsettling.
In fact, thinking about all of it over the past few days, and speaking with Riki about it last night, I think I've pinpointed what I feel is the exact shakiness of the tonal issues:
I know you guys can do MLP's tone. You've done it before, and as Riki pointed out to me, the Griffaltar/gem thief plot is a perfect example of you guys getting the tone and nailing it.
But the underlying modplot, the tone of the game with Cálice, the repeated focus (both by mods and by players) of memory manipulation, and the lurking, omnipresent sense of dread?
I think generally, the plot has missed the mark of "My Little Pony" and landed a little further than that, likely aiming for the sweetspot of G1's tone but landing past it into the territory of "Digimon". Ironically, this has made it easier for some people to settle in, maybe! Namely, the folks from Terminal Tokyo would feel right at home with that sort of tone, and it might be why a decent number of our new cast that have stuck the firmest were from that game. But the difference can still feel a bit awkward, sort of like being promised a hamburger and getting a chicken sandwich instead.
Sword pointed out most of my thoughts right there. It doesn't feel like the MLP game I signed up for two years ago because of those underlying elements that define MLJ's story. There's room for darker things to happen in the setting, sure, but the fact that some of those things match Mayfield's in terms of horror has me seriously concerned.
You guys have been working hard to maintain the balance between horror and slice of life and I know you're capable, but more work needs to be done there.
I'd like to add in something I think that would help and that's the idea that the playerbase itself should aid in the lightening up of the game. We've all came from horror games at one pont or another - Mayfield, Transmigration 9, DRRP, CFUD, etc. - so, it's easy to lose yourself in the idea of torturing your characters or bringing them to the point of despair for character development. It's always a challenge to do so (probably a good example of that is with the comic book character Daredevil and the "Born Again" storyline in his comics). However, there needs to be a point where you realize there's too much of it.
I mean, if you look at Lita and her recent plurks concerning Yukiko, she's burnt herself out because most of her recent developments with her has been soul-crushing defeats and the like. I think that should be a sign that maybe, just maybe, we've gone a bit too far.
I'm not saying we should do away with "dark" plots. Maybe a "hold" on the plots like we did with fights. But, I'm also not saying the next ten or so plots should be rainbows and gumdrops, either. There needs to be a balance and I think the plot-runners need to step in and go "No, you can't do that" if it's one of those "let everyone run wild" plots.
And this is now Terri. We have spent quite a bit of time behind the scenes the last couple of weeks discussing the feedback that we've received here off and on and how we can tweak and adjust the modplot to help fix this tonal issue. Ultimately, we do want this to be a game that is true to the spirit of My Little Pony.
We never intended this to be a horror game at all. We'll be working with players who bring us plots in future to ease any darker overtones and hopefully reduce some of that grim dread. Likewise, our modplot plans for the rest of the year will hopefully hit that sweetspot that we're looking for, particularly once certain mechanic changes are communicated to the PCs.
We will keep that in mind, but will have to discuss a more about what Zecora might be able to actually do. We're a little wary of giving PCs sway over life/death in the game. We have another mechanic tweak in mind that may work. It will just be a matter of communicating it ICly. Again, we will keep this in mind, though, and brainstorm other possibilities for a more direct PC intervention.
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mylittleooc2015-04-13 08:29 am
no subject
The way modplot has been written? All apps and drops are, by their very nature, forced through an IC filter of horror and/or imprisonment which almost makes it feel worse than what happened to drops in, say, Mayfield, which was unashamedly a horror game.
If you drop a character, that character is imprisoned by a cosmic entity, potentially without question, unless you or someone else picks them up again. Whether or not there is a choice in the matter, this is the default state.
Let me try rephrasing that in a way that's slightly less IC and has slightly more unpleasant OOC undertones:
If you drop a character, you are helping the Big Bad of the setting out unquestionably.
It's been eating at me for a while, and it feels kind of unfortunate at best and downright manipulative at worst?
I don't know what to do about it. I really don't. But I don't like it.
+1
(Anonymous) 2015-04-16 09:04 am (UTC)(link)to feed my characters to Calicedrop out."+ 1
no subject
As the person who came up with the idea of "what happens to dropped characters" back when the game first began, I'd like to say that this particular mechanic was not meant to cause any OoC discomfort regarding the IC fates of dropped characters. There's nothing wrong with feeling bad for the characters OoCly, but I nevertheless want to emphasize that our intention was never to make anyone feel guilty for or worried about dropping, or to guilt people into staying with the game, or anything of the sort.
When I was developing the plot to MLJ, my thought was to have dropped characters still have some kind of role in the plot, as opposed to just "they disappeared off of the face of the planet and were never seen or heard from again and they just never did anything else", which is what happens a lot of the time (or at least in my experience). Given the nature of the main bad guy, and her goals, and her research towards said goals (well, what she sees as research), it made sense that she'd bring these characters to Equestria. Further, for at least one reason I can't really say at the moment (because it hasn't been presented in-game, yet), even after she was finished studying them in Equestria, there's a point to why she'd still want to keep them and thus, what happens after drops. Pretty much all of this was the idea I had regarding the main bad guy's MO from pretty much the beginning of the game, two years ago.
That being said, if the IC mechanic is an issue for a lot of people OoCly, we can change it. There are a few things we can't change completely, but there is flexibility in what we can do that are in-game, ICly, when characters get dropped and why they would be sent back home as opposed to being in Calice, so its not an automatic "you're stuck in Calice for who knows how long" assumption. It also wouldn't be a retroactive retcon (since, at least to me, the latter would also be a bit disingenuous given the NPC'd dropped characters that have played a part in the plot a la Nemo). We'd also have to figure out a way to convey it ICly to characters. Still, its not impossible.
no subject
In fact, thinking about all of it over the past few days, and speaking with Riki about it last night, I think I've pinpointed what I feel is the exact shakiness of the tonal issues:
I know you guys can do MLP's tone. You've done it before, and as Riki pointed out to me, the Griffaltar/gem thief plot is a perfect example of you guys getting the tone and nailing it.
But the underlying modplot, the tone of the game with Cálice, the repeated focus (both by mods and by players) of memory manipulation, and the lurking, omnipresent sense of dread?
I think generally, the plot has missed the mark of "My Little Pony" and landed a little further than that, likely aiming for the sweetspot of G1's tone but landing past it into the territory of "Digimon". Ironically, this has made it easier for some people to settle in, maybe! Namely, the folks from Terminal Tokyo would feel right at home with that sort of tone, and it might be why a decent number of our new cast that have stuck the firmest were from that game. But the difference can still feel a bit awkward, sort of like being promised a hamburger and getting a chicken sandwich instead.
+1
You guys have been working hard to maintain the balance between horror and slice of life and I know you're capable, but more work needs to be done there.
no subject
I mean, if you look at Lita and her recent plurks concerning Yukiko, she's burnt herself out because most of her recent developments with her has been soul-crushing defeats and the like. I think that should be a sign that maybe, just maybe, we've gone a bit too far.
I'm not saying we should do away with "dark" plots. Maybe a "hold" on the plots like we did with fights. But, I'm also not saying the next ten or so plots should be rainbows and gumdrops, either. There needs to be a balance and I think the plot-runners need to step in and go "No, you can't do that" if it's one of those "let everyone run wild" plots.
I... hope I'm getting this through right.
no subject
We never intended this to be a horror game at all. We'll be working with players who bring us plots in future to ease any darker overtones and hopefully reduce some of that grim dread. Likewise, our modplot plans for the rest of the year will hopefully hit that sweetspot that we're looking for, particularly once certain mechanic changes are communicated to the PCs.
no subject
no subject